User talk:Timo

First Discussion

Hey, Timo: welcome to your very own Talk page. I really don't know how much wiki-experience you have, but from what I've seen, I'm assuming you're a quick learner. I'm going to talk to you as if you're a novice to wikis and not just to this one, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

These conversations are going to be divided between attempts to help you with your goals in wiki-editing and strategy for the Guide wiki (I'm going to try and bold any references to the wiki itself, to differentiate from the project you've created or actual text from the project). Please respond to anything you'd prefer here or start your own thread.

Editting: User & Talk pages

Each registered User automatically has two 'properties' in any wiki (they can build more later, if the wiki management allows it). The first is the User Page, which is owned by them. It can be used as a portal and introduction to other Users or as a reference for the User himself (direct links to others of concern, help pages, references and/or resources). On the two other wikis I'm on (Wikipedia and a Battletech one), I tend to go with the reference use.

Talk pages are the personal forums of Users. Users generally conduct discussions in two manners: the first starts off with the outsider contacting the User here and the User responding underneath. Just as in some older-school bulletin boards, the conversation would tree:

Ex: First Post

First response

First branch response

Second response

Second branch response

Third response

These are done by adding colons infront of the indented sections, using multiple colons for multiple indentions.

(I've gone back and made this change to the Questions for Timo discussion, as an example).

The second method usually has the User responding on the outsider's talk page. I find these conversations disjointed and usually don't pursue this.

Most posts start with first to last (top to bottom), but I've seen some Users go the opposite direction. Often, Users will archive old posts, to keep their Talk pages clean. If you're ever interested in that, let me know. Its rather simple.

One thing I've seen you've already discovered is the use of the signature with timestamp button. Those are welcomed in discussions, to indicate where one poster stops and another starts.--Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Editting: Cheat Sheet and other beginners' resources

Here's a list of resources I've lifted from Wikipedia and MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia and this site. The first one, the Reference Card, was critical to my initial understanding, but I really don't use it any longer. I hope they help.

Reference Card I've found it helpful to print this out
Cheatsheet
Magic Words

--Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Editting: History

A great resource to learning how to do something is the History tab. Judging from the edits you have made, I'd say you already know this. However, assuming you might not know this little trick, here it is. On the history tab, you'll see the most recent edits for that article. By clicking two radio buttons (the before and after), and then clicking the Compare selected versions button, you'll get a side-by-side comparison of what was changed, with the changes marked in red. If text on the left side is red, it was either deleted or moved. I will be using this extensively to analyze the changes you made to the DY series (Guide). Of course, I'm using it to recognize what changed in my understanding of the DY series, but its very useful from learning how others "do it". There are other methods that work equally well, but this is a good starting point. --Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Editting: Suggestion for formatting

In the A Word Or Two From The Author article, might I suggest using a colon (:) added in right before your responses? That would cause your statement to be indented, breaking it out from the questions.--Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Strategy/Editting: Additional change needed

(Note: In reality, on more established/populated wikis, comments about certain articles are made on the articles' talk pages -called Discussion- but I think they could be missed here, if we both didn't monitor the Recent Changes religiously.) You changed the displayed title for the DY series article on the Timo's Guide to Starfleet index page. For versatility's sake, I added brief index pages to the chapters' introductions (in this case, Before 2063 - The Playground (Guide)). So, the change you made didn't follow. Since this is a one-man wiki, its easy for me to remember to make both changes (and I've done so on the chapter intro to match the one you made).

However, for your Guide wiki. I don't know if you'll want that same feature (small index on the chapter intro). In very largely populated wikis, like Wikipedia, minor inconsistencies will probably be quickly discovered. On your wiki, once its up and running with its own life, neither you nor I will be following every small change others make, so some small detail like that could be missed. Its probably not important, but I thought I'd point out a pitfall of my design as I saw it. --Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Strategy: Your Current Material

I can see, based on the DY series article, you have indeed made quite a few changes to what I've already posted. (In my mind, you have the seventh printing or version, while I'm working off the sixth.) For your Guide, it might be easier to post the v.7 material directly, than boosting the wiki code from here at SFC. The reason I say this is because you won't have to get into the nitty-gritty of the differences between mine and your's -just cut and paste it- and won't have to deal with all the dead wikilinks (also wlinks) that will be built into my code. (We'll have templates tailor-built for Guide in which to post the data and text into.) Not really a concern until we have Guide actually up and running, but wanted you to consider that before you (mis-)realized the scope of the project, in regards to differences. When we get to that point, you can provide me with your latest version and we'll tackle it together.--Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Editting: Manual of Style

Take a look in the left side bar for the Manual of Style. Its a Help Contents section that I didn't feel was appropriately named for a one-person wiki. In it, I have data-blank templates for Guide articles, as well as code ready for copying (as well as instructions, to help remind me how and why I did things). Take a look and see what resources you can make use of. --Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Editting: Daedalus

Maybe I shouldn't have, but I did a little formatting on the Daedalus article. (You may have just been experiementing with starting an article, but maybe also practicing making it your own style for Guide.) I assume you don't necessarily want a horizontal line (provided in the edit buttons or made with for hyphens [----]), but would like to stick with an asterisk-like break. I've included both ideas, for your consideration. Take a look (including at the code) and let me know if this is what you were intending.

Why did you put so many spaces before the images? Maybe I can help you. --Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

From Flare PMs

To keep from having our conversations going thru three or more mediums, I'm bringing points of discussions from Flare over here:

The Guide (Now with Images!)

"I would love to share this stuff with you, perhaps updating the wiki entries to whatever latest specs I've come up with. In practice, FlareUpLoad no longer is a practical tool for sharing the files, not with the images in there. A site-type approach would really be in order now..."--Timo, 05 March 2008

Re-reading this, if I understand you correctly, you actually have some of your own images

embedded within the Guide. Is that a correct assumption? That's awesome, if so. Are these images begged, borrowed and stolen like here on SFC or from another source?

I happened to find an archive of fandom imagery the other week, which led me to the work

done by 'Vance' on TrekBBS. Since you're a frequent poster there, and once we've gotten Guide up to an acceptable level, do you feel you'll be able to enlist his help? --Dan 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Your schedule this week

"Basically, I'll get on full swing only later this week, after an exam on Thursday and lots of Easter-related stuff with the choir. I hope to get all the entries inserted and/or redone in the next few weeks; so far, I've only done a "practice edit" on the "word from author" bit to see how it's done, and I've had no problems yet. Let's see if I can figure out how to properly edit class data..."--Timo, 11 March 2008

Now that I've gotten your desired web page name, I can proceed with installation, so don't

feel like a deadline is over your head. In fact, you're now waiting on me, as the installation has to be done at home, when I have the block of time to devote to it. I have a lot of stuff to do before I deploy later this spring, both personally and professionally. For the Guide, I want everything that has to be done thru the server completed, because I won't be able to access it from at sea. Hopefully, I'll be able to attempt the initial installation this weekend, and then the supporting code for various useful features (like citing references) can follow along later. To be honest, the site may be functional but very ugly thru June, due to my schedule. But, as long as its functional and we're not trying to go public, it should be just fine for our needs during that period of time. (And then we can carry on these conversations over there.)--Dan 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Editing and Review Capacity

"I'm really looking forward to having actual work done on this. And I think I'm a feedback whore, too - but perhaps the wiki should at first be review only, later possibly to be opened for general editing."--Timo, 11 March 2008

If you'd like to allow public editting, I'd like to suggest forcing editors to register

(vice allowing anonymous edits). That's one step to prevent spambots from changing, deleting and adding pages for their own aims. It also helps ensure a level of trust that someone has the material's 'health' in mind, if they make an edit. In that regards, I'm going to leave it open to registered editing, when I install. We won't advertise the site's existance, except to a limited number of people who we trust to improve the site before its 'grand' opening.--Dan 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Uploading Pictures

"The major thing I have to learn yet is where to cache the pictures, and in what format..."--Timo, 11 March 2008

Incredibly easy. I've allowed most picture types to be included in the database (as well as a few other mediums, so that I could transfer things between work and home without having to worry about e-mail buffers), so I imagine anything you have, we can display. (Note to self: copy relevant imagery code from this wiki to the Guide wiki, post-install.)

Sidebar-->Toolbar-->Upload file
Use the Browse button to select the image.
Give it a fitting name for the site (not really necessary, but provides some consistency) in the Destination filename: field. (Summary not really necessary, either.)
Upload file
You'll see a page similar to this one. The term Image: will preceed the chosen file name, with the file type following. The whole line (ex: Image:Intl Space Agency c2018-2104.gif) is the equivalent to a regular article's title. Paste this into the code, for most places.
If you have a better image to replace the original (and wish to replace all uses of the original), instead of uploading a new file with a new name, overwrite the old one by clicking on the Upload a new version of this file link on that image page.

Hope this helps! --Dan 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Site Name

"No problem with shortening the name of the site; I'd just like to have a title page eventually, with the full title."--Timo, 11 March 2008

Roger that. I'll give the full title a go first and then short it to "Hobbyist's Guide" if necessary. The full title can definitely fit on the Main page. --Dan 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Main Page

Timo, another thing not at all necessary to have right now, but something to start considering is the Main Page. Here at SFC, you'll see I have four sections: 2 blocks with two columns in between. Orginally, I envisioned the Guide having Timo's Guide to Starfleet as the Main Page, but thought you might want something less book-centric. Really, most any general format could work, with the exception of more than two clumns (I don't know how to do three or more, though with time and effort, might be able to figure it out). Again, ideas:

Timo's Guide to Starfleet as the main page
Block format similar to this one (with/without columns):

Title Block (with quick resources)
Additional Blocks, comprising concepts such as eras, classes, major events, etc.

Alternate ideas

Think about this some. We're not tied down to any one idea from the beginning (like we are for the browser title), and can experiment.

Another issue is the top-left graphic. There is a hole left there, as each site is expected to have an icon of the site. Mine is obviously borrowed/stolen from 'Reverend' from Flare and I'll put a placeholder there during installation. To be honest, getting him to design one for this site would be par excellence. Do you think you could approach him, explain our project here and ask him to design one? The carrot would be to offer him beta entrance to the site...--Dan 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)