User talk:Timo: Difference between revisions

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These conversations are going to be divided between attempts to help you with your goals in wiki-editing and strategy for the '''Guide''' wiki (I'm going to try and bold any references to the wiki itself, to differentiate from the project you've created or actual text from the project). Please respond to anything you'd prefer here or start your own thread.
These conversations are going to be divided between attempts to help you with your goals in wiki-editing and strategy for the '''Guide''' wiki (I'm going to try and bold any references to the wiki itself, to differentiate from the project you've created or actual text from the project). Please respond to anything you'd prefer here or start your own thread.
===Editting: User & Talk pages===
Each registered User automatically has two 'properties' in any wiki (they can build more later, if the wiki management allows it). The first is the User Page, which is owned by them. It can be used as a portal and introduction to other Users or as a reference for the User himself (direct links to others of concern, help pages, references and/or resources). On the two other wikis I'm on (Wikipedia and a Battletech one), I tend to go with the reference use.
Talk pages are the personal forums of Users. Users generally conduct discussions in two manners: the first starts off with the outsider contacting the User here and the User responding underneath. Just as in some older-school bulletin boards, the conversation would tree:
Ex:
First Post
:First response
::First branch response
:::First branch response
::::First branch response
:Second response
::Second branch response
:Third response
These are done by adding colons infront of the indented sections, using multiple colons for multiple indentions.
(I've gone back and made this change to the [[Help:Scratchpad/Questions for Timo|Questions for Timo]]  discussion, as an example).
The second method usually has the User responding on the outsider's talk page. I find these conversations disjointed and usually don't pursue this.
Most posts start with first to last (top to bottom), but I've seen some Users go the opposite direction. Often, Users will archive old posts, to keep their Talk pages clean. If you're ever interested in that, let me know. Its rather simple.
One thing I've seen you've already discovered is the use of the ''signature with timestamp'' button. Those are welcomed in discussions, to indicate where one poster stops and another starts.--[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
===Editting: Cheat Sheet and other beginners' resources===
Here's a list of resources I've lifted from Wikipedia and MediaWiki, the software behind Wikipedia and this site. The first one, the Reference Card, was critical to my initial understanding, but I really don't use it any longer. I hope they help.
*[http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:MediaWikiRefCard.pdf Reference Card] I've found it helpful to print this out
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet Cheatsheet]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words Magic Words]
--[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
===Editting: History===
A great resource to learning how to do something is the ''History'' tab. Judging from the edits you have made, I'd say you already know this. However, assuming you might not know this little trick, here it is. On the history tab, you'll see the most recent edits for that article. By clicking two radio buttons (the before and after), and then clicking the ''Compare selected versions'' button, you'll get a side-by-side comparison of what was changed, with the changes marked in red. If text on the left side is red, it was either deleted or moved. I will be using this extensively to analyze the changes you made to the [[DY series (Guide)]]. Of course, I'm using it to recognize what changed in my understanding of the DY series, but its very useful from learning how others "do it". There are other methods that work equally well, but this is a good starting point. --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)


===Editting: Suggestion for formatting===
===Editting: Suggestion for formatting===
In the ''[[A Word Or Two From The Author (Guide)|A Word Or Two From The Author]]'' article, might I suggest using a colon (:) added in right before your responses? That would cause your statement to be indented, breaking it out from the questions.--[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
In the ''[[Guide: A Word Or Two From The Author|A Word Or Two From The Author]]'' article, might I suggest using a colon (:) added in right before your responses? That would cause your statement to be indented, breaking it out from the questions.--[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
 
 
===Strategy/Editting: Additional change needed===
(Note: In reality, on more established/populated wikis, comments about certain articles are made on the articles' talk pages -called ''Discussion''- but I think they could be missed here, if we both didn't monitor the Recent Changes religiously.)
You changed the displayed title for the DY series article on the [[Timo's Guide to Starfleet]] index page. For versatility's sake, I added brief index pages to the chapters' introductions (in this case, [[Before 2063 - The Playground (Guide)]]). So, the change you made didn't follow. Since this is a one-man wiki, its easy for me to remember to make both changes (and I've done so on the chapter intro to match the one you made).
 
However, for your '''Guide''' wiki. I don't know if you'll want that same feature (small index on the chapter intro). In very largely populated wikis, like Wikipedia, minor inconsistencies will probably be quickly discovered. On your wiki, once its up and running with its own life, neither you nor I will  be following every small change others make, so some small detail like that could be missed. Its probably not important, but I thought I'd point out a pitfall of my design as I saw it. --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)


===Strategy: Your Current Material===
===Strategy: Your Current Material===
I can see, based on the [[DY series (Guide)|DY]] series article, you have indeed made quite a few changes to what I've already posted. (In my mind, you have the seventh printing or version, while I'm working off the sixth.) For your '''Guide''', it might be easier to post the v.7 material directly, than boosting the wiki code from here at '''SFC'''. The reason I say this is because you won't have to get into the nitty-gritty of the differences between mine and your's -just cut and paste it- and won't have to deal with all the dead wikilinks (''also'' wlinks) that will be built into my code. (We'll have templates tailor-built for '''Guide''' in which to post the data and text into.) Not really a concern until we have '''Guide''' actually up and running, but wanted you to consider that before you (mis-)realized the scope of the project, in regards to differences. When we get to that point, you can provide me with your latest version and we'll tackle it together.--[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
I can see, based on the [[DY series (Guide)|DY]] series article, you have indeed made quite a few changes to what I've already posted. (In my mind, you have the seventh printing or version, while I'm working off the sixth.) For your '''Guide''', it might be easier to post the v.7 material directly, than boosting the wiki code from here at '''SFC'''. The reason I say this is because you won't have to get into the nitty-gritty of the differences between mine and your's -just cut and paste it- and won't have to deal with all the dead wikilinks (''also'' wlinks) that will be built into my code. (We'll have templates tailor-built for '''Guide''' in which to post the data and text into.) Not really a concern until we have '''Guide''' actually up and running, but wanted you to consider that before you (mis-)realized the scope of the project, in regards to differences. When we get to that point, you can provide me with your latest version and we'll tackle it together.--[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
===Editting: Manual of Style===
Take a look in the left side bar for the [[Help:Contents|Manual of Style]]. Its a Help Contents section that I didn't feel was appropriately named for a one-person wiki. In it, I have data-blank templates for Guide articles, as well as code ready for copying (as well as instructions, to help remind me how and why I did things). Take a look and see what resources you can make use of. --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
===Editting: Daedalus ===
Maybe I shouldn't have, but I did a little formatting on the [[Daedalus (Guide)|Daedalus]] article. (You may have just been experiementing with starting an article, but maybe also practicing making it your own style for '''Guide.''') I assume you don't necessarily want a ''horizontal line'' (provided in the edit buttons or made with for hyphens [<nowiki>----</nowiki>]), but would like to stick with an asterisk-like break. I've included both ideas, for your consideration. Take a look (including at the code) and let me know if this is what you were intending.
Why did you put so many spaces before the images? Maybe I can help you. --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
==From Flare PMs==
To keep from having our conversations going thru three or more mediums, I'm bringing points of
discussions from Flare over here:
===The ''Guide'' (Now with Images!)===
"I would love to share this stuff with you, perhaps updating the wiki entries to whatever
latest specs I've come up with. In practice, FlareUpLoad no longer is a practical tool for
sharing the files, not with the images in there. A site-type approach would really be in
order now..."--Timo, 05 March 2008
:Re-reading this, if I understand you correctly, you actually have some of your own images
embedded within the ''Guide''. Is that a correct assumption? That's awesome, if so. Are
these images begged, borrowed and stolen like here on '''SFC''' or from another source?
:I happened to find an archive of fandom imagery the other week, which led me to the work
done by 'Vance' on TrekBBS. Since you're a frequent poster there, and once we've gotten
'''Guide''' up to an acceptable level, do you feel you'll be able to enlist his help? --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
===Your schedule this week===
"Basically, I'll get on full swing only later this week, after an exam on Thursday and lots
of Easter-related stuff with the choir. I hope to get all the entries inserted and/or redone
in the next few weeks; so far, I've only done a "practice edit" on the "word from author"
bit to see how it's done, and I've had no problems yet. Let's see if I can figure out how to
properly edit class data..."--Timo, 11 March 2008
:Now that I've gotten your desired web page name, I can proceed with installation, so don't
feel like a deadline is over your head. In fact, you're now waiting on me, as the
installation has to be done at home, when I have the block of time to devote to it. I have a
lot of stuff to do before I deploy later this spring, both personally and professionally.
For the '''Guide''', I want everything that has to be done thru the server completed,
because I won't be able to access it from at sea. Hopefully, I'll be able to attempt the
initial installation this weekend, and then the supporting code for various useful features
(like citing references) can follow along later. To be honest, the site may be functional
but very ugly thru June, due to my schedule. But, as long as its functional and we're not
trying to go public, it should be just fine for our needs during that period of time. (And
then we can carry on these conversations over there.)--[[User:Dan|Dan]] 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
===Editing and Review Capacity===
"I'm really looking forward to having actual work done on this. And I think I'm a feedback
whore, too - but perhaps the wiki should at first be review only, later possibly to be
opened for general editing."--Timo, 11 March 2008
:If you'd like to allow public editting, I'd like to suggest forcing editors to register
(vice allowing anonymous edits). That's one step to prevent spambots from changing, deleting
and adding pages for their own aims. It also helps ensure a level of trust that someone has
the material's 'health' in mind, if they make an edit. In that regards, I'm going to leave
it open to registered editing, when I install. We won't advertise the site's existance,
except to a limited number of people who we trust to improve the site before its 'grand'
opening.--[[User:Dan|Dan]] 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
===Uploading Pictures===
"The major thing I have to learn yet is where to cache the pictures, and in what format..."--Timo, 11 March 2008
:Incredibly easy. I've allowed most picture types to be included in the database (as well as a few other mediums, so that I could transfer things between work and home without having to worry about e-mail buffers), so I imagine anything you have, we can display. (Note to self: copy relevant imagery code from this wiki to the '''Guide''' wiki, post-install.)
#Sidebar-->Toolbar-->Upload file
#Use the ''Browse'' button to select the image.
#Give it a fitting name for the site (not really necessary, but provides some consistency) in the ''Destination filename:'' field. (''Summary'' not really necessary, either.)
#''Upload file''
#You'll see a page similar to [[:Image:Intl Space Agency c2018-2104.gif| this one]]. The term ''Image:'' will preceed the chosen file name, with the file type following. The whole line (ex: Image:Intl Space Agency c2018-2104.gif) is the equivalent to a regular article's title. Paste this into the code, for most places.
#If you have a better image to replace the original (and wish to replace all uses of the original), instead of uploading a new file with a new name, overwrite the old one by clicking on the ''Upload a new version of this file'' link on that image page.
Hope this helps! --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
===Site Name===
"No problem with shortening the name of the site; I'd just like to have a title page eventually, with the full title."--Timo, 11 March 2008
:Roger that. I'll give the full title a go first and then short it to "Hobbyist's Guide" if necessary. The full title can definitely fit on the Main page. --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)
==Main Page==
Timo, another thing not at all necessary to have right now, but something to start considering is the [[Main Page]]. Here at '''SFC''', you'll see I have four sections: 2 blocks with two columns in between. Orginally, I envisioned the '''Guide''' having [[Timo's Guide to Starfleet]] as the Main Page, but thought you might want something less book-centric. Really, most any general format could work, with the exception of more than two clumns (I don't know how to do three or more, though with time and effort, might be able to figure it out).
Again, ideas:
*[[Timo's Guide to Starfleet]] as the main page
*Block format similar to this one (with/without columns):
:*Title Block (with quick resources)
:*Additional Blocks, comprising concepts such as eras, classes, major events, etc.
*Alternate ideas
Think about this some. We're not tied down to any one idea from the beginning (like we are for the browser title), and can experiment.
Another issue is the top-left graphic. There is a hole left there, as each site is expected to have an icon of the site. Mine is obviously borrowed/stolen from 'Reverend' from Flare and I'll put a placeholder there during installation. To be honest, getting him to design one for this site would be ''par excellence''. Do you think you could approach him, explain our project here and ask him to design one? The carrot would be to offer him beta entrance to the site...--[[User:Dan|Dan]] 14:10, 11 March 2008 (PDT)


== Hobbyist's Guide to the UFP Starfleet wiki is up ==
== Hobbyist's Guide to the UFP Starfleet wiki is up ==
Line 150: Line 25:


::Okay, I think I'm ready to show you the '''[http://starshiptracker.com/guide Guide]'''. Take a look in the sidebar over there: you'll see an area called the 'construction trailer.' I figure that, instead of populating our talk pages with the minutiae of making this wiki both work and look good, I'd create areas we can hide, when we go live. In fact, I'm going to move the discussions off your talk page here and to over there. --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 05:58, 14 March 2008 (PDT)
::Okay, I think I'm ready to show you the '''[http://starshiptracker.com/guide Guide]'''. Take a look in the sidebar over there: you'll see an area called the 'construction trailer.' I figure that, instead of populating our talk pages with the minutiae of making this wiki both work and look good, I'd create areas we can hide, when we go live. In fact, I'm going to move the discussions off your talk page here and to over there. --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 05:58, 14 March 2008 (PDT)
::Point of Clarification: The 'construction trailer' is where we can discuss the website specifically, while fanboy questions from myself (and others) should go on your talkpage.
::Also, it is usually considered poor form to alter someone else's talk page, by removing previous posts and whatnot, so let me apologize right away for having done so here. I wanted to keep the pertinent information in a logical location (in this case, on the '''Guide''' site). --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 08:25, 14 March 2008 (PDT)
:::Okay, after two weeks of stomping around the internet, I found the coding answer I needed for the Guide. I see you haven't yet registered there, but when you do, please let me know about the issues I've brought up for your review and point me where you want me to go. I'll check in there every day or so, until you've started to give me my marching orders. Otherwise, hope everything is well with you. --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 15:18, 28 March 2008 (PDT)


== "Missing" Narrative ==
== "Missing" Narrative ==
Timo, the [[Starships and Other Large Vessels (Guide)|Part I: Starships and Other Large Vessels]] 'chapter' is the only one of the three to not have anything written for it. With the focus of the ''Guide'' being primarily on starships, it would seem that it was covered by other areas (both senior and subordinate to the chapter entry), but it seems to be a bit (only slightly) odd when met on the '''Guide''' wiki. (I'm  saying this with my fan hat on.) --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 16:37, 13 March 2008 (PDT)
Timo, the [[Starships and Other Large Vessels (Guide)|Part I: Starships and Other Large Vessels]] 'chapter' is the only one of the three to not have anything written for it. With the focus of the ''Guide'' being primarily on starships, it would seem that it was covered by other areas (both senior and subordinate to the chapter entry), but it seems to be a bit (only slightly) odd when met on the '''Guide''' wiki. (I'm  saying this with my fan hat on.) --[[User:Dan|Dan]] 16:37, 13 March 2008 (PDT)


:Good point. I think the lead-in to Part III also warrants expansion eventually. The Guide currently is lacking in symmetry in any case, what with only Part I having the Era division. But a lead-in for Part I will be forthcoming eventually. --[[User:Timo|Timo]] 10:59, 14 March 2008 (GMT+3)
:Good point. I think the lead-in to Part III also warrants expansion eventually. The Guide currently is lacking in symmetry in any case, what with only Part I having the Era division. But a lead-in for Part I will be forthcoming eventually. --[[User:Timo|Timo]] 10:59, 14 March 2008 (GMT+3)
== Off to sea ==
Okay, Timo: I'm not sure what happened, why you haven't been back here, to the wiki I created for you or responded to my e-mails and posts at Flare. I've been seeing your posts at TrekBBS, so can only conclude you lost interest.
If I am mistaken, then I apologize, but my time has run out. I'm departing for a two-month underway period and won't be able to access my server from sea to change the framework at your wiki, at least until well after I get back. If you do change your mind, feel free to experiment with your wiki, upload articles and pictures etc. Any instruction/wiki guidance by me will have to wait, since the bandwidth and time on an aircraft carrier is so limited, but feel free to bring anyone else in that you'd like to assist in the project. If you don't have an interest in the project, then no further action by you is necessary; I'll shut it down in July, if so.
Please also be aware that I cannot be reached by my e-mail address while at sea, as google e-mail is prohibited there.
Best of luck,
[[User:Dan|Dan]] 08:13, 21 April 2008 (PDT)

Latest revision as of 07:07, 19 March 2017

First Discussion

Hey, Timo: welcome to your very own Talk page. I really don't know how much wiki-experience you have, but from what I've seen, I'm assuming you're a quick learner. I'm going to talk to you as if you're a novice to wikis and not just to this one, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

These conversations are going to be divided between attempts to help you with your goals in wiki-editing and strategy for the Guide wiki (I'm going to try and bold any references to the wiki itself, to differentiate from the project you've created or actual text from the project). Please respond to anything you'd prefer here or start your own thread.

Editting: Suggestion for formatting

In the A Word Or Two From The Author article, might I suggest using a colon (:) added in right before your responses? That would cause your statement to be indented, breaking it out from the questions.--Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Strategy: Your Current Material

I can see, based on the DY series article, you have indeed made quite a few changes to what I've already posted. (In my mind, you have the seventh printing or version, while I'm working off the sixth.) For your Guide, it might be easier to post the v.7 material directly, than boosting the wiki code from here at SFC. The reason I say this is because you won't have to get into the nitty-gritty of the differences between mine and your's -just cut and paste it- and won't have to deal with all the dead wikilinks (also wlinks) that will be built into my code. (We'll have templates tailor-built for Guide in which to post the data and text into.) Not really a concern until we have Guide actually up and running, but wanted you to consider that before you (mis-)realized the scope of the project, in regards to differences. When we get to that point, you can provide me with your latest version and we'll tackle it together.--Dan 12:42, 11 March 2008 (PDT)

Hobbyist's Guide to the UFP Starfleet wiki is up

Yep, got it installed during evenings and labored on it surreptitiously at work. It is up and it is ugly (as it has no personality at the moment, but we'll work on that together). I've added several features that I had been looking for for my wiki, including two simple security measures. However, getting it so you can work trouble-free will still require a few more hours of work. I know you're a bit overworked right now, so in that way the timing is good. Feel free to address some of the questions I've put forward above and ask some yourself, if you find you do have the time. I'll introduce your wiki to you this weekend, if not tomorrow.

I have, however, come up with what I think is a winning front page layout, using multiple blocks. It is, of course, only my suggestion and can (I expect) be easily changed to whatever you might have come up with in the meantime. --Dan 16:27, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

Thank you very much, Dan!
I appreciate all the work you have put onto this hobby project where the lion's share of labor should be mine. I hope I can get to full swing in transferring and completing the actual entries in the following weeks. The current template for entries is quite practical, although I have to work on the division of weapons to various types (something I should have done a long time ago anyway), and on the sources&credits listing.
I have to study the front page layout when I find it... I'm still a bit lost around here, but hopefully learning. --Timo 10:56, 14 March 2008 (GMT+3)
Seriously, Timo: no problem. I've wanted to 'give something back' to ST fandom for quite some time, and when I realized you didn't need my editing help, I had nothing. 'Discovering' private wikis, especially when I started to 'port the Guide over for my own uses, gave me the opportunity I wanted.
Okay, I think I'm ready to show you the Guide. Take a look in the sidebar over there: you'll see an area called the 'construction trailer.' I figure that, instead of populating our talk pages with the minutiae of making this wiki both work and look good, I'd create areas we can hide, when we go live. In fact, I'm going to move the discussions off your talk page here and to over there. --Dan 05:58, 14 March 2008 (PDT)
Point of Clarification: The 'construction trailer' is where we can discuss the website specifically, while fanboy questions from myself (and others) should go on your talkpage.
Also, it is usually considered poor form to alter someone else's talk page, by removing previous posts and whatnot, so let me apologize right away for having done so here. I wanted to keep the pertinent information in a logical location (in this case, on the Guide site). --Dan 08:25, 14 March 2008 (PDT)
Okay, after two weeks of stomping around the internet, I found the coding answer I needed for the Guide. I see you haven't yet registered there, but when you do, please let me know about the issues I've brought up for your review and point me where you want me to go. I'll check in there every day or so, until you've started to give me my marching orders. Otherwise, hope everything is well with you. --Dan 15:18, 28 March 2008 (PDT)

"Missing" Narrative

Timo, the Part I: Starships and Other Large Vessels 'chapter' is the only one of the three to not have anything written for it. With the focus of the Guide being primarily on starships, it would seem that it was covered by other areas (both senior and subordinate to the chapter entry), but it seems to be a bit (only slightly) odd when met on the Guide wiki. (I'm saying this with my fan hat on.) --Dan 16:37, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

Good point. I think the lead-in to Part III also warrants expansion eventually. The Guide currently is lacking in symmetry in any case, what with only Part I having the Era division. But a lead-in for Part I will be forthcoming eventually. --Timo 10:59, 14 March 2008 (GMT+3)

Off to sea

Okay, Timo: I'm not sure what happened, why you haven't been back here, to the wiki I created for you or responded to my e-mails and posts at Flare. I've been seeing your posts at TrekBBS, so can only conclude you lost interest.

If I am mistaken, then I apologize, but my time has run out. I'm departing for a two-month underway period and won't be able to access my server from sea to change the framework at your wiki, at least until well after I get back. If you do change your mind, feel free to experiment with your wiki, upload articles and pictures etc. Any instruction/wiki guidance by me will have to wait, since the bandwidth and time on an aircraft carrier is so limited, but feel free to bring anyone else in that you'd like to assist in the project. If you don't have an interest in the project, then no further action by you is necessary; I'll shut it down in July, if so.

Please also be aware that I cannot be reached by my e-mail address while at sea, as google e-mail is prohibited there.

Best of luck, Dan 08:13, 21 April 2008 (PDT)

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