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Medron Pryde
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I know why I had to type in Babylon Five in my intro thang.....

*Medron mumbles something about webmasters with too much time on their hands*

Very Happy
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Fitzs
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Wow, thanks, MP. I had missed the question for some reason.

1) In a way, yes.

The first step to building a ship is actually building the class. Using a Star Trek universe for an example, lets start using the TOS Enterprise in SST. First, you build the class specifics into the database (these are all done with tabs...class, ship, fleet, etc.) The class is named: Constitution, in this case. The next, you build in class specifics: top speed, sensors and sensor ranges, mass, dimensions, crew size, etc., and hit 'Create.'

The next step, if you are only building the Enterprise is to choose the Ship tab, select the newly emplaced 'Constitution' class and then name the ship. In this case, you provide the starting point (since this is the first time SST has seen this ship), the destination and the speed, as well as what sensors are active. The Enterprise, once created, will now appear on both maps and in the side selection window.

...snip



Ok have a couple of questions.

Don't know if it pertains to the system or not, but from 'Ships of the Star Fleet' Vol.1/Revised, page whatever the Constitution class is on, the 12 ships were built at 6 different yards in the same system. Will you have the same capability?

Second, the Achernar Class Hvy Cruisers come from seven different star systems. I am presuming that the various sub-systems were not shipped from a central supply but were probably built from other contractors closer to the yard (might be wrong) but might the specs for the component be assembled differently so that certain ships have slightly better or worse capabilities than the prototype/Class ship? Is it possible to have notes for the ship showing the ships of this Class from Rapier Dynamics Group at Aldebaran has better sensors vrs the Arias Mastac at Daran V which has worse. The Star Fleet Divison at Earth and Arcturus III barely made the required speed of the Class while the SFD of Deneb V went 2% faster.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan wrote:
Good question.

Right now, I've created a sample database of 42 real objects, 39 stars and 3 nebulas. I didn't want to preload a pre-existing universe, for trademark reasons, but I do intend to have a member's download area, so that these can happen. Řystein will most likely prepare, with help I'm sure, the BT universe (I hope I'm not volunteering him unnecessarily).

As for ships, I see no reason that a similar project cannot be worked on, as well. It would be nice to know that a few databases are pre-set upon product release.

Another good idea, trademarked BB.


Have you checked the National Observatory or whoever does the filing of the Stellar Database to see if it is in Public Domain.
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, thanks for the questions.

Fitzs wrote:
Don't know if it pertains to the system or not, but from 'Ships of the Star Fleet' Vol.1/Revised, page whatever the Constitution class is on, the 12 ships were built at 6 different yards in the same system. Will you have the same capability?


When I used the word 'built' I meant in the sense of creating a database entry for a specific ship. The program will track the capabilities of each ship - as determined by its class type - so that if you want it to go from Planet A to Border Point B, it will go at the set speed for that journey, but not in excess of the Class max speed.

So, if you enter 12 ships of the Constitution class into the database, you can have them start their journeys where ever you want them to (in your case, at one of six different locations).

Quote:
Second, the Achernar Class Hvy Cruisers come from seven different star systems. I am presuming that the various sub-systems were not shipped from a central supply but were probably built from other contractors closer to the yard (might be wrong) but might the specs for the component be assembled differently so that certain ships have slightly better or worse capabilities than the prototype/Class ship? Is it possible to have notes for the ship showing the ships of this Class from Rapier Dynamics Group at Aldebaran has better sensors vrs the Arias Mastac at Daran V which has worse. The Star Fleet Divison at Earth and Arcturus III barely made the required speed of the Class while the SFD of Deneb V went 2% faster.


Absolutely, ships may vary from one to another, if you wish to go into that level of detail (as I plan to, too). In this case, though, you would label the class with an extended name. You might have the Class names as Constitution Prototype, Constitution Flight I, Constitution Flight II, etc. Using your example, maybe you'd call one Class entry Achernar - RDG, another Achernar - SFD(Earth), and a third Achernar - SFD(Arcturus). From there, you'd list the names of the ships under those sub-classes.

Now, the program would see each of the three (or however many there are) subclasses as separate classes, but your designation by class and subclass in the Class name would distinguish them for you.

I feel this is much better than mere notes, as sensor range will be depicted on the display and you'd want them displayed correctly per the subclass, as you would any speed differences.*

Even if you had one ship that differed from the rest of the class, you'd might want to make that distinction. For example, I believe the Belknap class dreanought program was often considered an update to the prototype of the Decatur prototype. Decatur was built, but enought lessons were learned that substantial changes were made to the follow-on ships. In SST, you'd handle that by building the Decatur Class and adding only Decatur to the Ship portion of the database. The Belknap would also have a Class entry made, and all Belknap class ships would be added to that shiplist.

*But, as for notes, you will be able to add any level of detail you want with a note feature. In this, you'd be able to add universe-specific details to the Class and Ship entries, as well as have a direct link to a more extensive file you designate. For example: if you select a specific ship either from one of the two maps or from the list on the side, you'll see all of the Class data for that ship on the Class tab/card at the bottom of the utility, as well as Ship (specific) data on the Ship tab/card. The Class data would list things like sensor range, speeds, crew size. The Ship data will provide ship's current location, speed, origination & destination. Now, each of these will also have blank fields that can be designated for other information by the user. For example, Titan might have a field labeled "Commanding Officer: W. Riker" if you want it to, with another field saying "Current Mission: Interception."

But, you can also right click on that same ship and get a menu that will include an option to open a file directly linked to that specific ship. This might include a simple wav file, causing a sound to play. It might be a word document that you keep a running log, or a detailed stat (proper weapon nomenclature, engineering equipment) or a intelligence report related to the current mission. Each ship will have that file's name provided on the right-click menu, assuming the file is where the link is pointed.

Does that help any?
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fitzs wrote:
Have you checked the National Observatory or whoever does the filing of the Stellar Database to see if it is in Public Domain.


I haven't looked for several months for a good public database. It would have to be one where transferring the data into a database would be as simple as copy & paste. The problem is that most such databases are based on coordinate systems very different than the lightyear system that SST will be based upon.

Maybe, once it appears SST is well underway and going to happen, we can make a public database for all to add to. But, otherwise, I'd provide the sample database and let others build their own to their own specifications.
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Medron Pryde
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting idea for ships would be to allow us to add "modifiers" to each ship that add onto the class stuff.

Say the Enterprise has the best stuff, has just been refitted, and has the best crew as an example. Therefore, it can maintain a slightly higher warp speed and its sensors are a bit better due to excellent maintenaince.

Or you are on the...um...well...can't think of a ship there...anyways, some ship that has the "less good people" or "benefited" from shoddier construction. It goes a bit slower and its sensors sorta suck cause the crew keeps on having bear parties when it comes to sensor overhauls...

Very Happy
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Dan
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, when you start talking about modifiers, now you start seeing game mechanics come into play, and SST should not do that. It should be focused on tracking changing positions. The sensors idea, I believe, came up from one of you playtesters, and I like it. But, its an option that can be turned on for those game systems that would make use of that.

If someone wanted to precisely track the changes between individual ships within a class, that's where they would copy the general class and sub-label it: Galaxy class La Forge subtype.
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Medron Pryde
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok...it was just an idea....Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are two lessons I've learned from reading various posts, essays and such from both you and Rick: 1) You have GREAT ideas that really enhance the final product and 2) they come at a great cost of sanity. Cool

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Medron Pryde
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Rick would agree that my ideas tend to...be painful...Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Medron Pryde wrote:
An interesting idea for ships would be to allow us to add "modifiers" to each ship that add onto the class stuff.

Say the Enterprise has the best stuff, has just been refitted, and has the best crew as an example. Therefore, it can maintain a slightly higher warp speed and its sensors are a bit better due to excellent maintenaince.

Or you are on the...um...well...can't think of a ship there...anyways, some ship that has the "less good people" or "benefited" from shoddier construction. It goes a bit slower and its sensors sorta suck cause the crew keeps on having bear parties when it comes to sensor overhauls...

Very Happy


As Dan said, this realm isn't going to be tapped into and I understand why. One way of achieving what Medron has suggested here though (perhaps for future reference) is to have the ability to "Upgrade ships of a particular class.

For example, the Victory Class ships are the shoddier ones that Medron mentioned. Cheap materials, lower maintenance, etc. Now the Victory II has started production at the same ship yard. Once the "Next Generation" of that class is available an "Upgrade" button becomes available with which you can upgrade your older vessels of that class, for a price of course.

This, however, leads to more complication because you would have to link the two classes together in the system in order for SST to 'know' that there is an upgrade available.
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Medron Pryde
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personnally, I think it would be easier to just to have modifiers linked to each ship, than it would to have some ship class able to be "changed" like that.

Though in the database area, I could definately see having the ability to do that. But who knows...Smile
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